Welcome to Season 3, Episode 5 of
the ‘Career Guide for International Students’ Podcast, brought to you by ICAway! I’m your host, Kwan Segal.
In today’s episode, we delve into the art of cross-cultural networking and unveil the secrets to landing a job as an international student in the US! Our special guest is Betsy Cohen, Executive Director of the St. Louis Mosaic Project of the World Trade Center-St. Louis. Betsy is a renowned advocate for international student and immigrant careers, and the author of “Welcome to the USA—You’re Hired! A Guide for Foreign-Born People Seeking Jobs” and the eBook “Top Hiring Trends in 2024 for Foreign-Born People Seeking Jobs.”
Join us as we explore Betsy’s inspiring journey and gain valuable insights into navigating the US job market.
Highlights from the Episode:
- Betsy’s passion for advocating careers for international students and immigrants
- The importance of networking amidst a competitive job market
- Tips for overcoming cultural barriers and fears related to networking in the USA
- Strategies for dealing with rejections and maintaining a growth mindset
- Advice for international students and career advisors
- Exciting updates from the St. Louis Mosaic Project
The St. Louis Mosaic Project is a regional initiative within the St. Louis Economic Development Partnership and the World Trade Center St. Louis. The project aims to transform St. Louis into the fastest-growing major metropolitan area for immigrants by 2025. It provides extensive resources and support for immigrants, fostering a welcoming community that values cultural diversity and innovation. Learn more at St. Louis Mosaic Project.
Tune in now and start building your path to success with expert guidance from Betsy Cohen. 🌍✨ #InternationalStudents #CareerAdvocate #NetworkingTips #JobSearch #HiddenJobMarket #CrossCulturalNetworking #CareerAdvice #Podcast
You can listen to the latest episodes of the ICAway podcast on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or right on our website.
Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/icaway/support
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Transcript:
[00:00:00] Coach Kwan Segal: Hello and welcome everyone to season three, episode five of the Career Guide for International Students podcast brought to you by ICAway. I’m your host, Kwan Segal. Join us as we explore insights from international education leaders and professionals advocating for international student careers.
[00:00:21] Coach Kwan Segal: And if you’d like to watch this in the video format, you can also check out our video podcast on YouTube and Spotify.
[00:00:29] Coach Kwan Segal: In today’s episode, we will discuss cross-cultural networking, which is the topic that’s so close to my heart. This is the secret to landing a job for international students.
[00:00:40] Coach Kwan Segal: Our guest on the show today is one of the most admirable international student and immigrant career advocates in the U.S.
[00:00:49] Coach Kwan Segal: Betsy Cohen. Betsy is the Executive Director of the St.Louis Mosaic Project of the World Trade Center, St.Louis.
[00:00:58] Coach Kwan Segal: She works with [00:01:00] individuals looking to have a successful job search and with companies seeking global talent, so important. And she is also the author of amazing books, two books, write it down everyone, First, “welcome to the USA you are hired a guide for foreign born people seeking jobs” and the ebook “top hiring trends in 2024 for foreign born people seeking jobs.”
[00:01:26] Coach Kwan Segal: Betsy, thank you for being on my show today.
[00:01:30] Betsy Cohen: Oh, you’re welcome. Thank you for inviting me. You have such a broad impact that it’s a pleasure to be here.
[00:01:36] Kwan: Thank you so much. That means a lot coming from you. And are you now calling from the beautiful city of St.Louis today?
[00:01:45] Betsy: Yes, St.Louis, Missouri, the home of the Gateway Arch, the gateway to the West.
[00:01:51] Kwan: Wow. I never traveled to St.Louis before. I know it’s just hours away from Chicago. I should go and visit you sometime.
[00:01:59] Betsy: [00:02:00] Please come!, love to have you come.
[00:02:03] Kwan: Let’s plan for that. Let’s plan for that. All right. We have, some questions for you today. We are so thrilled about learning from you. But first, I believe that some of our audience may be curious to know, where did your passion in advocating careers for international students and immigrants begin?
[00:02:24] Kwan: And how did it happen?
[00:02:25] Betsy: When I was in high school, I was an exchange student to France and I lived with a French family. So I had the experience myself of being a foreigner in a foreign land and needing to learn how to have success in a new culture. And in fact, I used a different name there. I used the name Elise, because Elise is a French name and Betsy is not.
[00:02:49] Betsy: So, I was very early in terms of understanding that I needed to find ways to be cross culturally competent. As well, when I was growing up, my [00:03:00] family was a member of the World Affairs Council, which would have international people come to St.Louis and we would have them hosted in our home for dinner. So, that was a way that I had a chance to meet many international people.
[00:03:12] Betsy: While living in the Midwest. And that opened my eyes to the value that we all bring in a global world.
[00:03:19] Kwan: Wow. So you have that international background and you know what it’s like to be, you know, international professional outside the U. S.
[00:03:28] Betsy: And that carried forward because in my first career, I was an executive with Nestle, which is the world’s largest food company, and I worked with many international people and I was a mentor to many people of color as well as other women, as well as international people. And that always continued as a personal passion of mine.
[00:03:49] Betsy: And so. It gave me a good grounding to then move into the second career where I work to attract and retain and support new Americans and global talent [00:04:00] to come to St.Louis.
[00:04:03] Kwan: That’s amazing. And we have ICAway students that working at Nestle Purina as well, and she loved it.
[00:04:10] Kwan: So, thank you so much for being the advocate for international students and immigrants. Now let us move on to the topic that we are here for, cross cultural networking.
[00:04:22] Kwan: Before I ask you the question, I want to emphasize the importance of networking to our students who are listening to us right now. Listen to this, you guys. If you only depend on online job applications, U.S. job openings fell more than expected this year, pushing the number of available jobs per job seeker to its lowest level in nearly three years since the pandemic.
[00:04:53] Kwan: And average job openings attracting more than 250 resumes and only [00:05:00] 2 percent or less of applicants securing an interview. That is difficult for all job seekers, right? And for international students, navigating the traditional job application process will give you more Challenges like many talented international students stumble through because they have to wait for job to be open, facing inquiries about immigration status, and they lost their chance of presenting their skills to the hiring manager.
[00:05:31] Kwan: And I’m not saying this to discourage you because we have seen a lot of success from our students at ICAway where this year landing jobs through networking. When you are able to effectively connect with people, you will have higher chances of securing job opportunities through your network.
[00:05:52] Kwan: Even before jobs is posted, and we call this tapping into the hidden job market. And [00:06:00] Betsy – we would love to learn from you. You know, it’s easier said than done, right? For all of us here as a foreign born students or professionals, we have fears about networking. Especially in the U S because networking is not a common norm, possibly, you know, like for me in Thailand is not a common norm in Thai culture.
[00:06:22] Kwan: What is the first thing that you want to advise students to do to kickstart with if they want to network in the U S?
[00:06:31] Betsy: I think first is to understand that everyone, U.S. born, foreign born, international student, we all hate the word networking. Because the word networking sounds phony. It sounds fake, like we’re just trying to network so we can get into an event and leave or do something online. And so I think the word that I really want you to think about is the word relationship.
[00:06:55] Betsy: You want to build a relationship and find a way that you [00:07:00] can connect with someone in a way that is more meaningful than just I’m the best student in data analytics, because that is great, but it will not be enough in the American market to help you break through. The United States has a characteristic that is not true in many other countries, which is. We as a country tend to favor what’s called likability. We will hire someone who’s likable above someone who is the most intelligent or the most talented. And so likability is a very careful issue for you to navigate because how do you make yourself likable? When you may come from a different culture and that is why you need to determine how you can make that relationship happen and find a bridge and we can talk about that because one way is to understand some of the really good topics for small talk, which I can share with you.
[00:07:57] Kwan: Like when I first came here to the [00:08:00] U.S. Small talk is number one challenge for me. It was so hard to, you know, first break the ice with people. I usually just, you know extend my hand and shake hands because that’s what I learned from school and introduce my name.
[00:08:16] Kwan: And that is not a small talk,
[00:08:20] Betsy: No, that starts,
[00:08:21] Kwan: do that. Huh.
[00:08:23] Betsy: you know, that’s a start, you know, shaking hands, having a good firm handshake, making eye contact. That’s first. But after that, you need to have a question or something to engage. If you walk up to me and we’re standing there by the chicken nuggets at a reception, you need to have something that you can chat with me about.
[00:08:43] Betsy: And there are four topics that I think are really good topics to think about before you go to an event. One of them is sports. What is going on in the sports world that you could ask me a question about or ask [00:09:00] me what I think about sports. Maybe it’s about the Paris Olympics that are coming up, or maybe it’s about the hockey finals, or maybe it’s about a global competition.
[00:09:11] Betsy: So that is one good topic. The second one would be music stars around the world, maybe talking about something that happened with Taylor Swift. Concerts in England this week, you know, and what do I think about Taylor Swift? And you might learn that my husband is a Swiftie. And so I know a lot about Taylor Swift.
[00:09:30] Betsy: And so you might tell me you don’t care for Taylor Swift at all, but you prefer someone else. Then we begin a conversation. The third topic, which I think is really great. Is vacations, you know, what is, what are you going to do, whether it’s the Thanksgiving, Christmas holidays or summer vacation, you know, do you have plans for the summer?
[00:09:53] Betsy: Do you have a vacation plan? And then you chat, share. Find out what they’re doing, and then that might [00:10:00] form a bond when you share what you’re doing. My last suggestion is restaurants and food. To ask them, what is your favorite restaurant? Or what’s your favorite ethnic restaurant? And that provides a great way to build a connection.
[00:10:16] Betsy: So, for example, you might find out that the person cares for one kind of food, and you care for a different kind of food. But then later, you You might follow up with him or her with something about the restaurant or the kind of food they prefer. For example, I love Indian food. So if we had a discussion, you might say, Oh, I like you know, Korean food or Japanese food.
[00:10:38] Betsy: And then later, though, you might send me a link to a new Indian restaurant that just opened that you think I might like. And that way you can use what we talked about as a bridge to building a longer relationship. And then we can talk about your skill and data analytics.
[00:10:56] Kwan: Right. That is amazing. Great [00:11:00] examples. My favorite ones are the third one. You know, talking about like vacation plan. Especially right now, like we are in the summer. We can even ask people, did you get to enjoy your summer? You know, this is such a great way to break the ice. And also food especially like people from Asian culture, like myself, we are foodies.
[00:11:22] Kwan: And I usually take advantage of being from Thailand because usually Thai, everyone likes Thai food, fortunately,
[00:11:30] Betsy: popular. Thai food is really growing in popularity everywhere.
[00:11:36] Kwan: And whenever you are in Chicago, I would love to bring you to my favorite Thai restaurant here. in Chicago.
[00:11:42] Betsy: It’s one of my favorites.
[00:11:44] Kwan: Oh, wonderful. Wonderful. I have some follow up questions, though. The first thing that you mentioned about sports.
[00:11:51] Kwan: I even I myself have that struggles talk about sport because I don’t enjoy watching it. And Chicago is a big thing, right? The Bears, the [00:12:00] Cubs. What would be your advice for that? Like, For students
[00:12:03] Betsy: Well, I think the advice is to be curious. I think the advice is to be curious, you know, and to say, you know, ask about something that’s going on. It might be a sport you like to do, that you like to take walks, you like to run, or you’re learning golf. So you could ask about a personal sport, or you could ask about a professional sport.
[00:12:24] Betsy: But I do think, That in the American culture, you need to understand if your city has a professional sport that has something important, you need to know. Because I’ve asked groups of students, when we have opening day for the baseball team, St.Louis goes crazy on opening day. And I have asked students, what’s happening today?
[00:12:45] Betsy: And they, they don’t know. But you need to know in your city, if there’s something important in sports, because it is a bond. Even if you don’t like to watch. You do need to know because you want to make that engagement and that is something that [00:13:00] sets a tone. So you just have to have enough interest that you can say to somebody, you know, you’re standing by the wall, that person standing by the wall and you say, Oh, today’s the opening day.
[00:13:12] Betsy: You know, do you know anybody going? It just provides it, but you need to think before you go to an event. What are the two or three things I can talk? You need to think about it in advance so you can build that relationship. The other thing I do suggest is that when you go to an event, you think about making three good relationships.
[00:13:33] Betsy: Don’t think that if I shake hands with 20 people, I did a good job because you didn’t, if you can have three really good conversations and then follow up, you will be better served and you feel more authentic as well.
[00:13:48] Kwan: Absolutely quality over quantity. It’s not just about how many business cards you collected or linkedin connection is about how to convert that to meaningful [00:14:00] conversation to what you said relationship. That’s great advice. Very practical. I would love to discuss a little bit more, dig deeper into the troubles that students usually experience when they started networking.
[00:14:17] Kwan: They usually face rejection. And I had that myself too, like and I didn’t even know that it was the rejection when I networked in Chicago. People ended the conversation with me. Let’s do lunch sometime. And I follow up, and I never hear from them. Later on, I Google on the internet, and I found out that’s the way to say goodbye, or that means I’m not interested.
[00:14:44] Kwan: Right? It’s so confusing, that nuance, that, you know, international students or foreign born professional experience. So, we will definitely face rejection through networking, because this is a learning curve. What would be your [00:15:00] advice for students to navigate this and overcome their fears of networking because of the rejection?
[00:15:09] Betsy: I think we all face rejection in this process of trying to seek a new opportunity. It could be a promotion in your current company, or it could be a new job that you’re looking to get at a different organization. But you need to be persistent. And so you need to, whether it could be an online relationship through LinkedIn, Where you say, I’d love to do a 15 minute talk on zoom with you, or it could be to say, can I stop by and have 15 minutes of your time in your office because I’d like to learn more about X, Y, or Z.
[00:15:44] Betsy: I think what I see is often students are too vague. And the person doesn’t really have time to waste, but if you have a specific question that you have, then you can be more connected to the person that you’re [00:16:00] asking, particularly if you’re using your alumni network, your own alumni network is going to be your best source of possible connections or a professional association.
[00:16:11] Betsy: So if you’re in the accounting area, your Chicago Accounting Society. Could be a great place, or the Asian American Chamber of Commerce of Chicago, for example, or the Northwestern alumni network, for example, or other people who went to your school who share your country of origin, they are going to be the most helpful to you, but you need to have a more specific question.
[00:16:39] Betsy: You know, when I had an international student reach out to me this week, and he just said, I’d like to talk to you on zoom because I’d like to find out your advice. I don’t have time today because I’m too busy. But if he had said, I have two questions for you about these two things in your background that would help [00:17:00] me or about your marketing career that would help me or about exactly how to do A and B, I would have made time for him.
[00:17:08] Betsy: Because he made a specific ask, but when it’s general, people do not have time for that. So I do encourage you to be specific in what you ask for. So the person you ask is going to be more open to wanting to help you.
[00:17:24] Kwan: Love that. You provide such a practical advice here. You know, rejection, we all experience rejection, but there are some strategies that you can use to reduce that numbers of rejections. By finding that common grounds, utilizing your alumni network, utilize, you know those in person networking opportunity, right, have that commonality like for me as an Asian professional, I am also a part of ASCEND, which is the largest pan Asian organization, and I get to make friends with [00:18:00] people who’s like the director of top organizations without feeling awkward about it.
[00:18:05] Kwan: Because we have that commonality to share
[00:18:09] Betsy: And when you have that commonality. And then you have that relationship and that commonality. They then, through LinkedIn, you can say, I see that you know this person. Do you know them well enough to make an introduction for me? Or do you know them well enough that if I put an application in, that you could tell someone there to look out for me for that application?
[00:18:30] Betsy: And you can make those requests because you have made that introduction. Relationship and you’ve invested in it. You’ve built equity between you. You’ve built a relationship that you can build on and you can do the same for other people. I also want to make one word very special for the international students, and that is the word irresistible.
[00:18:51] Betsy: And if you remember one word from this discussion, it would be, how do you make yourself irresistible? And that means you have to be [00:19:00] able to be unique and different because many of the companies. That you might face rejection from because you know, as you say, there’s a lot of rejection. Every company that I know that has said they don’t hire international students they have because somebody was irresistible.
[00:19:19] Betsy: They broke through that barrier. Someone fell in love with them, and they said, I really want her and I’m going to find a way around it. So, for example, you know, let’s say you. Ask someone if you can do a shadow with them for half a day, you know, and they say, okay and you go in and you spend half a day with a person to shadow them.
[00:19:40] Betsy: They may then feel connected to you and go further because you’ve become irresistible to them because they’re more invested in you. So how do you make yourself irresistible? If you say, Betsy, I want to come in and have a 15 minute chat. Coffee with you. I’m going to bring a latte to you. How do you prefer it?[00:20:00]
[00:20:00] Betsy: I mean, that’s great. So, or if you know that I like Indian food and you, you know, again, send me a little jar of garam masala, you will be irresistible because you have broken through the clutter.
[00:20:13] Kwan: Love it! Being irresistible. And for that we can talk about the previous advice that you provided being likable. Right. Building relationship and continue with showcasing your brand later on. Right. But first is to build that rapport, that relationship. And once you become irresistible, you don’t have to worry at all.
[00:20:37] Kwan: If the company have hired international students in the past, you can bypass that because someone in the company will become your career advocate.
[00:20:48] Betsy: you know, and it’s, it’s challenging. You know, I would say that often when hiring international students or international people, companies are confused. You know, the hiring manager may not [00:21:00] understand. How the F visa works and how you stay on your F visa and when you have one year for OPT or three years with STEM OPT, they may not understand the process.
[00:21:11] Betsy: So you have to also educate them along the way. And then you have. A hiring manager that could be different than the human resource person, that talent acquisition person, and they have competing and not always aligned views. So if you can get a hiring manager who really wants you, they will overcome the barrier.
[00:21:29] Betsy: And it’s not the money. Sometimes the international students say, Oh, well, The company is going to offer me less money or they’re going to resist because I have to pay money. It’s not the extra 5, 000 it may cost for filing fees or an immigration or if that is not, if they want you, they want you, but they need to be educated how they do it and so they can make the right plans to get you hired.
[00:21:53] Kwan: Love this conversation. So true. From the HR perspective, it’s like [00:22:00] when the company needs to fire someone that is not a good fit, it costs them three times of the annual salary, right? And for international student hiring, a really good fit and just sponsoring with that 5, 000 is nothing with the talent retention strategy.
[00:22:19] Kwan: I loved it so much. Thank you. And since you, mentioned about advocating themselves, you know, educating employers do you have some examples of how students can talk about their work visa status?
[00:22:34] Betsy: I think that. international student needs to be able to clearly state that they can work for one year or three years staying on their student visa. And during that time, there can be a discussion about. Ways to continue that relationship with different visa options. And that is something that is part of the discussion, [00:23:00] but you do have to be honest, you know?
[00:23:01] Betsy: And if the question is, will you need the sponsorship in the future? The answer of course, is yes, unless you have been able to do a self sponsored visa, and I’m seeing this more and more. Probably have two that the international students are looking early in your career or in your graduate studies about the potential for the O visa or an E visa, where you prepare early to meet three of the eight criteria where you can self sponsor yourself by proving your value to our country.
[00:23:33] Betsy: Because. International students are a resource our country needs. And certainly under president Biden, there’s been an expansion of the pathways to welcome the talent, particularly in STEM fields, which have all been expanded into many other categories so that you can prove. That you have characteristics that show that this country needs you.
[00:23:56] Betsy: And so think early about whether you also could look at those [00:24:00] E and O national interest waivers and prepare yourself for that. Don’t wait to the end when the OPT clock is ticking and you suddenly wonder why you didn’t consider preparing yourself for some of these other opportunities that you could have done.
[00:24:16] Kwan: Thank you for mentioning this. This is so important. Students need to start planning their career and visa pathways on day one arriving in the US because like those self petition visas, it takes time for you to meet that criteria as well. But it’s gonna solve most of the problems.
[00:24:39] Betsy: Yeah, for example, one of the questions are, have you been a judge for competitions? Well, you need to get involved so that you can become a judge, or if you need to have some national or international papers, you need to think about it and plan a strategy to write something interesting, to get a co author, but you can do it.
[00:24:58] Betsy: If you look at the [00:25:00] criteria, and just like, you know, the intelligence of our international students is off the charts, that if they put their mind to looking at the criteria, I see all the time that they are finding ways to build the case, that they are that exceptional, that our country needs to give them a different visa.
[00:25:16] Kwan: Mm-Hmm. . Perfect. All right. We are moving towards the end of our interview today. What will be other additional advice for international students who are seeking jobs in the us as well as for advisors who are supporting them?
[00:25:36] Betsy: I think to seek, Professional associations in your field and to use LinkedIn to make those relationships stronger as well. Many of the international students have not developed a good LinkedIn presence whether their picture needs to be more inviting, the background should be inviting, the way they put their criteria on LinkedIn, and [00:26:00] then also the way they post.
[00:26:01] Betsy: And comment for people in the companies that they’re interested or in the field they’re interested in. LinkedIn is a bit of a game. It’s like I tag you, you tag me. And there’s a dialogue that happens on LinkedIn. And in the professional world, LinkedIn is so important. And international students and other students.
[00:26:21] Betsy: Really underestimate how the professional game is now being played on LinkedIn. And some of the students, particularly from China, haven’t had as much experience with LinkedIn, but they need to learn it once they’re here. And other international students need to get comfortable with commenting. If I post something, you can comment on it.
[00:26:41] Betsy: And then, you know, I’ll respond to you or you make a link to somebody else. And that is a way you build your brand. You know, and I think you’re very good at encouraging the international students to build their brand, but you become known for having good ideas, for being in the field, commenting, building on someone [00:27:00] else’s ideas and thoughts.
[00:27:01] Betsy: And so you become part of that community, and then other people are going to help you. So I think increasing the game that you play on LinkedIn is a really important thing to remember as you build your presence and your brand.
[00:27:16] Kwan: Yes. See LinkedIn as a game. Right. And I just want to talk about this one because one of my students just sent me a message yesterday. Coach Kwan, my post, I got lots of likes, but no one commented on it. I feel totally a failure. How would you advise him?
[00:27:38] Betsy: I think getting likes is great but
[00:27:41] Betsy: if you comment on other people’s, they’ll start to comment on you. And if you repost it, they will do the same. So it’s a back and forth. There’s a reciprocity. You know, I have commented on your posts. I have reposted what you as a coach have said, because I want my audience to hear what you have said.[00:28:00]
[00:28:00] Betsy: And so that’s something that’s really important. Same way when I put something about my book. Or my website and for some of you to know that my website is welcome you are hired dot com and if you go to welcome you are hired dot com or you see something you like comment on it and then I will like it and I will repost yours and that becomes the currency and we build that kind of exchange together.
[00:28:24] Betsy: And we lift all of us because it’s an abundance mentality. There’s not a scarcity idea here, but there’s an abundance of opportunity for the best and the brightest people to share ideas and to get hired and then help other people get hired.
[00:28:42] Kwan: That’s wonderful. What about career advisors? At the university colleges or universities who are listening to us right now, what would be your advice to them when they need to coach their students to help them break through networking fears?[00:29:00]
[00:29:01] Betsy: I think they need to remember that often the international students don’t get the information at the same time that it’s presented by the international student in the career office, because the international student may not be ready and they, they come in later when it’s already happened, but then all of a sudden they’re catching on.
[00:29:18] Betsy: They need to learn it. So being patient that the international students are sometimes finding out about things on different timing. And then encouraging them to be a little bit bold and to break the norm. And I think the idea that you have to follow the rules isn’t really true. You can break the rules and you can go outside the boundaries.
[00:29:37] Betsy: You can color outside the lines, we say, and make new relationships and find a person and be bold, be personal, and encourage them to bring their full personality, not just their incredible academics, but bring their full personality to the front.
[00:29:56] Kwan: Love that advice and I’m excited to [00:30:00] share with our audience as well that ICAway plan to launch the Cross-Cultural Advisor Academy for College advisors. University advisors. So would love you to check on ICAway.com/iCEP [i-C-E-P]. Check it out. We hope to help you, help your international students overcome fears of networking.
[00:30:22] Kwan: Now, Betsy, lastly. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. Now we have the last piece here. We would love to, you know, hear from you about any exciting updates or news about St.Louis Mosaic project that you’d like to share with our community. We would love to hear about them.
[00:30:44] Betsy: The St.Louis mosaic project in our work. We work with 17 of our universities and their career service offices with panels and activity to help give them good guidance and make sure that they all have my book in their career libraries to help the [00:31:00] international students and that we are here as a resource to those career service offices.
[00:31:05] Betsy: Here and around the country, I’m always available because that’s my personal mission. My day job is for the St.Louis Mosaic Project at the World Trade Center of St.Louis. But beyond that, outside St.Louis, I use my book and speaking and joining with you today because my personal passion is. to help those people who are bringing global talent to the United States to be successful here because the American economy needs you.
[00:31:33] Betsy: And when you contribute here, it’s so important for the American economy. And then when you go back to your home country, you have that knowledge as well as part of the global economy. Or if you stay here, you’re contributing to the global economy through the United States economy. And that’s my personal mission.
[00:31:50] Kwan: I’d love to share the links to your website and your books. As a caption of this podcast [00:32:00] episode as well. Thank you so much for all the meaningful work that you do. Definitely is such an honor, Betsy. Truly an honor to have you on my show today.
[00:32:10] Betsy: Thank you. It’s wonderful to be here with you, and I look forward to collaborating in the future.
[00:32:16] Kwan: Thank you so much.
[00:32:18] Kwan: All right, everyone. If you enjoyed this episode, Follow our channel and share your positive thoughts with a review. Your support helps other find us. Thank you for tuning in and being part of our ICAway community.
[00:32:32] Kwan: Have a great day and I will see you next time. Think big and live your dream.
